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DotNetNuke Forums
 
  Forum  General DotNetN...  Chat About It!  to sub-portal or not
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New Post 6/8/2008 11:04 AM
User is offline Leazon
267 posts
9th Ranked


Re: to Wall is better than to sub-portal or not? 

Hi Leslie!

I have been through this as I have similar requirements to you.

Having read Tony's Vertical Solution Providers whitepaper and being a PowerDNN customer I elected to go with full installs for each "site"  I will have hundreds of "sites" when I am done rather than 1000's like you. So far this is what I've found:  I went with the entry level dedicated server from PowerDNN which has 1 gb of ram - so far I have 9 full installs on the server. With most of the sites unloaded I am close to using all of the ram - I haven't done the test of hitting all the sites at once yet.  So at this point I'm thinking that the full install route isn't the way to go.  But neither is the child portal route.

What I am thinking of doing is using a single DNN install and a traffic director module that will direct each user to the home page of their site when they log-in (each site has it's own role).  Each site's home page menu will only allow that site's users to access pages which belong to that site.  There are upsides and downsides to this solution - upgrading is much easier, server resources are much lower, but letting site admin's add web pages could get tricky. Site admin's can edit each page, add modules, etc.  I just have to figure out the adding pages/menu's issue.

Hope this helps

Greg

 
New Post 6/8/2008 2:11 PM
User is offline Leslie
29 posts
10th Ranked


Re: to Wall is better than to sub-portal or not? 

Interesting, I have to say I am let down by DNN. The reason I chose it in the first place was because of its portal capibility. I did not expect to be then told, actually you cannot use that because it does not work.

Why have it if you cannot use it!

In my situation and I am sure in many others, we want to have many child (and parent) portals to segregate sites based on clubs, assocations, groups, etc where each can have its own forum, blog, pages, etc based on its own roles.

I would invite some of the DNN team members to put their voice to this thread.

Is DNN 5 going any way to sorting this out?

Thanks for the info Greg please keep me informed as to how you get on.

 
New Post 6/8/2008 4:28 PM
User is offline Tony Valenti
375 posts
8th Ranked


Re: to Wall is better than to sub-portal or not? 

Hi Leslie,
You are correct about if  you're running a big site you should just stick to it being one portal per install.  Right now we're helping out one of the big names in the DotNetNuke community recover from a 700 portal install.  They had a large install and now we're going to help them cut it up into multiple installs because it is becoming unmanagable.

When it comes to the amount of RAM that a server needs, servers operate quite a bit different today than they used to.  As Leazon pointed out, when you start out, you may start using all of  your physical RAM right away, but that's ok - SQL Server and ASP.NET are designed to use all available memory - and then some.  I don't want to bore you with OS design concept stuff, but to give you an idea, we have a number of customers who put 50 or more separate DotNetNuke installs on a Power1 (entry level) dedicated server without a problem and even though they only have 1gb of physical ram in their server, they are using 8 gig of memory.  Each server's capacity is different depending on what is being done on it.

FYI - You might be interested to know that I was in a 5 hour dinner conversation last night here at Open Force and the biggest topic was how much portals suck.

Broadcasting from OpenForce,
Tony Valenti
PowerDNN DotNetNuke Hosting


-Tony Valenti

I work for PowerDNN - The Enterprise DotNetNuke DNN Hosting Provider
Tony.Valenti@PowerDNN.com
+001-402-650-6072
 
New Post 6/8/2008 4:45 PM
User is offline John Mitchell
3867 posts
www.snapsis.com
4th Ranked




Re: to Wall is better than to sub-portal or not? 
Modified By John Mitchell  on 6/8/2008 6:53:42 PM)

Leslie,

Having multiple portals is roughly the same as having multiple IIS sites.  There is some overhead in creating multiple applications, but that is small compared to the normal memory footprint of a single DNN portal.  There are many other details to consider when deciding if you need separate websites for each of your clubs, associations, or groups.

I don't know if you have seen this thread yet, but it has more info on the subject:
http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/Forums/tabid/795/forumid/118/threadid/223563/scope/posts/Default.aspx

Bottom line is that you are not likely to get 4000 individual websites on a single server without running out of memory, especially if they are DNN websites.  So if you were thinking that you could run 4,000 virtual websites on a single shared hosting account then I can understand your disappointment, but if you are thinking that it is something that needs to be "fixed" by the DNN core team, then you'll be staying disappointed.

Also, aside from memory, if those 4,000 different clubs, associations, or groups also have any significant amount of thier own traffic then you'll need to horizontally scale across more servers.
Here is another blog post where Charles Nurse did load testing at Microsoft labs: http://www.dotnetnuke.com/Community/BlogsDotNetNuke/tabid/825/EntryID/1196/Default.aspx
In that post you can see that they only loaded 500 instances on a single server.


 
New Post 6/9/2008 2:00 PM
User is offline Leslie
29 posts
10th Ranked


Re: to Wall is better than to sub-portal or not? 

Hi John,

Initally I will be on shared hosting. Once the site portal count would increase I would go the dedicated server route and eventually horizontally if that's what it takes.

My final questions are these;1

1. If I go down the road of all parent portals am I likely to suffer major performance hits.

2. If I go down the child portal route would these peform better.

3. Based on the answer above, if I go down the dedicated server and eventually horizontal route, could I scaled to 4000+ portals

4. If, I decide later on to split my DNN installs into say regions (like 6 regions) is there a way to export an entire portal and import it into another DNN install.

Thanks for your trusted opinons so far.

 
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