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3/6/2008 7:32 PM
 
User is offline Tareq Mahmud


www.fowara.com
Joined: 12/16/2007
Posts: 199

According to this book Professional Search Engine Optimization with ASP.NET: A Developer's Guide to SEO
by Cristian Darie, Jaimie Sirovich viewstate position does matter. There is no evidence to proof. Well known sites such as dnn, asp.net, ms are all very well know sites with thousands of visitors every hour. They are bound to be indexed by Google constantly. I belive the viewstate positioning is big help to new sites or sites that are not popular yet. I helps getting ranks faster. It  may not make any difference for dnn or asp.net. I don't think upgrading to 4.8 will lower ranking unless the page structure, keyword for the pages have changed. But I am no guru and that is just my opinion.

There are many factors for ranking. One factor is how fast the page loads and how fast a robot can crawl thru the page. Having viewstate on the top could increase time for robots crawling. Some says it may stop indexing a page. Ofcourse that will not aafect the well known sites.

I think for small sites and new sites viewstate at bottom is a big help and hope the DNN developers will take that into consideration for small site like mine.

Tareq Mahmud
Fowara
 
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3/6/2008 11:27 PM
 
User is offline odove


Joined: 3/21/2004
Posts: 110

Joe Brinkman wrote

There are lots of items which affect search engine ranking.  In fact when we researched this issue prior to 4.8 we could not find a single Asp.Net app other than DNN that moved viewstate.  Nor could we find any documentation that showed that the position of viewstate impacts SEO.  Given that sites like PageFlakes, ASP.Net, MSDN, MySpace and many others don't alter viewstate, then what evidence is there that viewstate has any impact whatsoever?  For every site whose page rank dropped after upgrading to 4.8, I can show you another site where pagerank was unnaffected (including DotNetNuke.com).

When I said my site's search engine ranking dropped I was talking about key words placement on search engines, NOT google pagerank. My site's google pagerank stays the same. And I don't care about that google pagerank.

I do not want to explain much about SEO here. The interesting thing is when I realized this issue I never thought about checking sites like asp.net or msdn.com. I checked some other sites instead, the sites that are striving to succeed and they are big as well. Obviously lots of them realized this is an issue and they did something to avoid the negative effects.

I understand it might not be easy to  make a balance between the performance and SEO. It might be nice for dnn users to have an option as to whether it should be on top or bottom?

 
 
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3/7/2008 9:25 AM
 
User is offline Joe Brinkman


Joe Brinkman's Avatar

Joe Brinkman's Avatar

blog.theaccidentalgeek.com
Joined: 5/18/2003
Posts: 1967

Everything we do is a balancing act.  When discussing performance issues with Microsoft, they pointed out that moving the viewstate using our code had serious performance impacts.  After getting this feedback and researching the issue, we found that most of the advocates for moving viewstate pointed to articles that based their conclusion on the fact that DotNetNuke moved viewstate.  This becomes a catch 22.  Viewstate should be moved because some SEO guru says you should move viewstate based on the fact that DotNetNuke moves the viewstate.

So, rather than going around in an endless loop, lets try something different.  Go to the Host settings page.  Scroll down to the Performance Settings and change Page State Persistence from Page to Memory.  Now we are left with this dainty little viewstate code at the top of our page:

<input type="hidden" name="__VIEWSTATE_CACHEKEY" id="__VIEWSTATE_CACHEKEY" value="VS_keosrs45tdwuow55zem0hk25_633404779931050000" />
<input type="hidden" name="__VIEWSTATE" id="__VIEWSTATE" value="" />

So now we get a twofer - no viewstate block at the top of the page and we have a much smaller page payload.  Our pages load faster and we can stop arguing over unprovable facts about the dark arts of SEO.

Joe Brinkman
DotNetNuke Corp.

The Accidental Geek - Joe Brinkman
 
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3/7/2008 9:59 AM
 
User is offline Bradley Molzen

www.vinocellar.com
Joined: 9/29/2003
Posts: 59

Joe Brinkman wrote

Everything we do is a balancing act.  When discussing performance issues with Microsoft, they pointed out that moving the viewstate using our code had serious performance impacts.  After getting this feedback and researching the issue, we found that most of the advocates for moving viewstate pointed to articles that based their conclusion on the fact that DotNetNuke moved viewstate.  This becomes a catch 22.  Viewstate should be moved because some SEO guru says you should move viewstate based on the fact that DotNetNuke moves the viewstate.

So, rather than going around in an endless loop, lets try something different.  Go to the Host settings page.  Scroll down to the Performance Settings and change Page State Persistence from Page to Memory.  Now we are left with this dainty little viewstate code at the top of our page:




So now we get a twofer - no viewstate block at the top of the page and we have a much smaller page payload.  Our pages load faster and we can stop arguing over unprovable facts about the dark arts of SEO.

Wow... great information like this would do very well in a Wiki or some other "Tips and Tricks" page...  Is there one and I just don't know it?

Thanks for the Info Joe about exactly what that option does.  I hadn't realized. 
 
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3/7/2008 11:21 AM
 
User is offline Mitchel Sellers


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www.mitchelsellers.com
Joined: 1/24/2007
Posts: 7638

Joe Brinkman wrote

Everything we do is a balancing act.  When discussing performance issues with Microsoft, they pointed out that moving the viewstate using our code had serious performance impacts.  After getting this feedback and researching the issue, we found that most of the advocates for moving viewstate pointed to articles that based their conclusion on the fact that DotNetNuke moved viewstate.  This becomes a catch 22.  Viewstate should be moved because some SEO guru says you should move viewstate based on the fact that DotNetNuke moves the viewstate.

So, rather than going around in an endless loop, lets try something different.  Go to the Host settings page.  Scroll down to the Performance Settings and change Page State Persistence from Page to Memory.  Now we are left with this dainty little viewstate code at the top of our page:




So now we get a twofer - no viewstate block at the top of the page and we have a much smaller page payload.  Our pages load faster and we can stop arguing over unprovable facts about the dark arts of SEO.

Joe,

I think a VERY strong word of caution is needed with this setting.  There have been MANY reports in the past of issues with this setting and various modules.  I have yet to have a site that I can safely use this configuration option on.

Just my $0.02 anyway.

-Mitchel Sellers
Microsoft C# MVP, MCITP
CEO/Director of Development - IowaComputerGurus Inc.
LinkedIn Profile

Visit mitchelsellers.com for my mostly DNN Blog and support forum.

Visit IowaComputerGurus.com for free DNN Modules, DNN Consulting Quotes, and DNN Technical Support Services

I recommend PowerDNN and 3Essentials for DotNetNuke Hosting and BaseCamp for project management
 
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